Forum Statistics:



16 posts

It is currently 20 Jun 2019, 23:42

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Armor research [article discussion]
PostPosted: 22 May 2011, 21:29 
head researcher
User avatar
Name: Gorak
World: Refugia
Vocation: Paladin

Posts: 397
Ack I did my rounding the wrong way, will have to revise my posts. Will get back to you.


Top Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Armor research [article discussion]
PostPosted: 22 May 2011, 22:06 
head researcher
User avatar
Name: Gorak
World: Refugia
Vocation: Paladin

Posts: 397
Inwander wrote:
Do you think, are my calculations are rights?


No sorry, don't think so. Emerald sword does not have any armor. The +3 defense means that IF you wear a shield then you add +3 to its defense value. So if you have mastermind, def 37, you add 3 now it is defense 40.

Defense and armor are two separate things. Armor will block all hits, defense only blocks the first 2 per round.

My post above is now correct. There is no difference in armor reduction (not considering physical %) between zaoan legs and dwarven legs with YOUR set, so it is pointless to compare them. Since dwarven legs have a higher physical %, it is always best to wear them with YOUR set. This will change depending on the set you wear, but not significantly.

(If your armor adds up to an odd number, you can subtract 1 armor from anything you wear and it will not affect anything)

The moral of the story is, dwarven legs are basically always the best!


Top Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Armor research [article discussion]
PostPosted: 23 May 2011, 08:00 
Name: Vassilli Zietsev
World: Rubera
Vocation: Knight

Posts: 64
Thanks Gorak, I guess it is time for me to go and throw on some dwarven legs.


Top Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Armor research [article discussion]
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2014, 17:56 
Name: tamsulosin
World: Candia
Vocation: Knight

Posts: 3
Dear Sir,

My name is Tamsulosin, a curious inhabitor of the world Candia. I would firstly like to congratulate you on your commendable efforts in the pursuit of Tibian science as well as your work on this particular forum of distribution.

I read with interest your articles on armor and shielding. Here I would like to pose a few questions and then discuss a few issues on your armor study. I will make a separate post for shielding.

Would you kindly clarify on the following?
1. Were flat 30 damage traps the sole source of damage you used to obtain your data?

2. When calculating total armor value, did you add up every arm value in the inventory to a total?

3. You present a very well constructed calculator. However could you also present the formula and any data summaries too?

4. Was shielding and "blocked" hits accounted for?

5. In terms of statistics... how exactly did you obtain the data? What sort of sample sizes did you use?

[...] continued.


Top Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Armor research [article discussion]
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2014, 18:04 
Name: tamsulosin
World: Candia
Vocation: Knight

Posts: 3
Discussion
1. The reason I ask about damage source is because if you used only a single damage source then you have made a critical assumption which would require further verification: namely that damage reduction is always the same, regardless of the damage source/count.

How can you be sure without testing that for any armor will always reduce a flat value no matter how much the raw damage is? How do we know armor does not reduce a proportion of the raw damage rather than a flat value?


2. If in calculating total armor value you add up all the armor values in the inventory then you made another assumption without verification. How do you know that armor values are added in a simple linear way? From my recollection of historical studies (these websites have since been buried and results thus no longer available) each successive armor is less effective than the one previous when added together.


3. Data summary in the form of graph would allow the reader to interpret the data themselves!


4. Damage count cannot be accurate if shielding/blocked hits are not accounted for. Each of these "hits" would be 0 damage and definitely affect the average value!


5. Just for completeness sake it would be helpful for us to know how many times the experiment was performed and on what equipment/damage source. At the least in order to allow other researchers to reproduce the experiment.


I thank you for your time in considering my questions. I look forward to your response.

Yours truly,

Tamsulosin
A curious traveller


Top Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Armor research [article discussion]
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2015, 02:47 
head researcher
User avatar
Name: Gorak
World: Refugia
Vocation: Paladin

Posts: 397
tamsulosin wrote:
1. The reason I ask about damage source is because if you used only a single damage source then you have made a critical assumption which would require further verification: namely that damage reduction is always the same, regardless of the damage source/count.

How can you be sure without testing that for any armor will always reduce a flat value no matter how much the raw damage is? How do we know armor does not reduce a proportion of the raw damage rather than a flat value?


Since then, I have also tried traps that give a base damage of 60 and it is still a flat value. One thing that can help verify this is that over the past years CIP has introduced armor that has both armor points and % reduction of physical attacks. If armor had already been proportional, I think it would be unlikely they add a separate parameter.

tamsulosin wrote:
2. If in calculating total armor value you add up all the armor values in the inventory then you made another assumption without verification. How do you know that armor values are added in a simple linear way? From my recollection of historical studies (these websites have since been buried and results thus no longer available) each successive armor is less effective than the one previous when added together.


In general, the formulas in tibia tend to be linear (although for armor values they are not a simple linear equation, they have to be tweaked a bit). I will mention that I did verify my assumptions even though everything is not written in this article (which Kagonesti wrote).

tamsulosin wrote:
3. Data summary in the form of graph would allow the reader to interpret the data themselves!


True, but this is a pretty boring graph! It is pretty easy to run over some traps, copy and paste those damage logs into Excel, cut out the extra stuff (manually or with a formula) and see how it looks.

tamsulosin wrote:
4. Damage count cannot be accurate if shielding/blocked hits are not accounted for. Each of these "hits" would be 0 damage and definitely affect the average value!


That is true. We have only accounted for the difference in damage in the distance calculator since distance weapons ignore shielding (it was very difficult to include in the curve hits below 0 as 0).

tamsulosin wrote:
5. Just for completeness sake it would be helpful for us to know how many times the experiment was performed and on what equipment/damage source. At the least in order to allow other researchers to reproduce the experiment.


I wholeheartedly encourage you to experiment yourself and report back. In this case of armor it really did not take that much effort to see clear results. In the case of shielding, this took a lot more time and you can read about it in that article (and I did include more specifics).


Top Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group